Read times. Tone Deaf Jr. So far I can't find anything on the net to confirm. Are any more experienced old sages able to enlighten me please? I hope this does not make things worse These all work like magic in phono-stages.
I will grant that the ECC is quieter. ECC FV PC-6mA max. PC- 25mA max. I have this info. If forced to pickI'd try the ECC firstthey are quieter. Good luck. You might check out this page. In it, you will find you can use the tubes as a replacement for 12ax7's, and they are usually cheaper.
Way different specs, different pinout. Both designed for different purposes. That said, I agree, they both make excellent tubes for phono stages. But you need different circuits to take advantage of their individual characteristics. The 6DJ8 operates at much lower voltages and higher currents. Less mu voltage gainbut way more gm transconductance gain. It is a higher frequency tube designed to operate in cascode stages.
Really, both will give great results if used properly. They are not, however, interchangeable. Thanks for the replies. I think I'll stay away from ECC88's then. They seem quite a lot brighter so far, good with dark sludgy sounding records, but I'm favouring the 12AX7 for most things. Remember tone controls, weren't they handy??? Perhaps they'll settle in a bit as they get older Question is, what to try next.Changing tubes in an amp can be a particularly challenging experience, especially since there seems to be such an abundance of them.
The truth is, there is no difference at all between them, and each one is interchangeable with the other. There are also many slightly altered versions of these tubes.
For example, there are low-noise versions that are being substituted, such as the 12AX7A, 12AD7,and plenty more. The 12Ax7 tube is by far the most popular preamp tube used in guitar amplifiers.
If you own a tube amp, there is a good chance it has one or more 12Ax7 tubes running the preamp section. If you need to replace your 12Ax7 tubes, you will undoubtedly come across the ECC83 tube.
This can lead to quite a bit of confusion and uncertainty about which one to purchase. Some people might worry about whether or not you can substitute the ECC83 for a 12Ax7.
Many guitar shops will only carry one brand of preamp tube. The ECC83 tube will perform the same as the 12Ax7. This type of tube powers the preamp section of most tube amps but plenty of effect pedals, microphone preamps, mixing boards, and other audio equipment also use the 12Ax7 tube to get more vintage-sounding tones.
Preamp tubes have very long life spans and very rarely need replacing. They deal with tiny voltages and currents, as compared to power tubes. They are therefore much less likely to overheat or fail during the lifetime of the amplifier. For any purpose besides audio amplification, the transistor is better than the vacuum tube because it is much smaller, consumes less power, gives off less heat, rarely fails, and is cheap to make. Clipping happens when a signal going into the tube or transistor is more than it was designed to accept.
Clipping happens quite often when a guitarist strikes the strings, and the subtle differences in the way the tube or the transistor react to it can have a significant effect on the overall sound of the amplifier.
Tubes sound warm, smooth, and pleasing in a way that transistors cannot duplicate. For that reason, they are likely to have a long future in guitar amps. Your email address will not be published. Skip to content One of the more confusing things about tube amps is changing them, especially when there seem to be so many different kinds available.
Fig 2 There are also many slightly altered versions of these tubes. FAQ What are 12Ax7 tubes used for? Why are transistors better than vacuum tubes? Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your email address will not be published.Add to Cart. Product Details. Also available with current Balanced triodes for phase inverter use and Balanced and Matched in pairs or multiples. There is no extra charge for low noise and microphonics testing like with other tube vendors.
Additionally the tubes undergo a battery of tests for basic performance characteristics and faults such as: Emissions, Transconductance, H-K and Grid leakage, etc If a tube does not pass our strict performance criteria it's tossed or sent back to JJ Electronic for evaluation.
Although this tube uses the classic short plate design, it was engineered from the inside out as a purpose built rather than a low test 12AX7. We recommend these in input stages where players are looking for more headroom and a cleaner overall amp. Keep in mind reducing gain generally has the effect of decreasing high end response. If that's not desired checkout the Gold Pin 12AY7 variant as it retains more bandwidth than the original non-gold pin tube. All Rights Reserved All text and images on this website may not be used without express permission.
All prices and product information subject to change without notice. Who is JJ Electronic?In many cases, these tubes are interchangeable and can easily be swapped. We will take a look at why you might, or might not want to swap out the different types of tubes. The 12AX7 is by far the best-known preamp tube among guitar players.
It has a Gain output ofmaking it perfect for the preamp stage of an amplifier, allowing it to drive the power section harder, and enabling it to reach high levels of distortion.
The 12AX7 is also used in many audio preamps and in guitar effects pedals.
ECC83 vs 12Ax7 Tubes – What is the Difference?
There are many versions of the 12AX7 tube and many brands. The version of the 12AXY tube is a military version that is rugged and has a lower Gain of The 12AT7 is another very well known tube among guitar players.
It has a much lower Gain output at 60, but what you lose in Gain you get back with more headroom, higher fidelity, and an increased current output. Because of their high fidelity they are also used in many tube microphone preamps, compressors, and recording equipment. They are also used in many organs. Because of their higher current you sometimes see them driving effects such as Tube Driven Spring Reverb in many guitar amps. Just like the 12AX7 tube, the 12AT7 has many different versions created for specific reasons, such as low noise and ruggedness.
The version of the 12AT7 has a lower gain of The 12AU7 is the last tube on this list and it has the lowest Gain, with an amplification factor of This is used much less as a preamp tube because of the low Gain, and more as a driver for the Tube Driven Spring Reverb. The 12AU7 is also used quite often in the Phase Inverter position of the amplifier because of the high fidelity and great headroom that it provides.
The 12AU7 is used in many hi-fidelity audio systems and recording equipment, and the Current from the tube is enough to drive a pair of headphones or a guitar speaker.
Because of this, it is used in many different headphone amps, several small one-tube guitar amplifiers, and in many home hobby projects. The 12AU7 is also heavily used in all stages of organs. There are also many different versions of this tube that have been created for specific reasons, such as low noise, military-grade, and ruggedness. As you look at each tube, you might notice that as the amount of Gain decreases, the amount of Current increases.
As the Gain decreases, the amount of headroom increases, and fidelity is improved. Noise is also reduced with lower gain tubes. The 12AU7 makes a less ideal swap for the 12AX7 because other factors such as Bias come into play and the mismatch can cause the tube to sound unpredictable and very quiet.
You may need to look into your guitar wiring to get the proper resistance load necessary to use a 12AU7 in place of a 12AX7. There are dozens of varieties of each of these tubes that span more than 60 years, and the sound that each creates will change over the course of its life. One of the most fun aspects of tube amps is the never-ending quest for the perfect tone — that perfect tube.
I encourage you to try out as many tubes as you can and to listen to the subtle differences, even in the same type of tubes, as this will inform you in ways that words and even sound samples cannot. If there are many tubes in the preamp section of your amplifier the first one will always be the one that has the largest impact on your sound, so start there.You are reading the older HTML site. I love and appreciate tube based audio gear and own sixteen pieces of tube gear between my two reference systems.
Without a thorough knowledge of tube types and their substitution possibilities, you may be over-paying for your new or NOS tubes you employ, or just pick the wrong ones. This data is based on my experience, and input from my electrical engineering audiophile friends. Knowledge is power, and knowing an unusual substitute may be a true joy.
Small Signal Tubes:. The GE is a bargain basement musical giant! The Mullard CV is still fairly cheap, plentiful, and magnificent.
The bargain priced PCC88, the 7 volt version of this tube, works nicely in the vast majority of 6 volt applications. Buy it used, but checked, if necessary. A killer tube, but huge and requires lots of space bigger than a KT Other Dual Triode Tubes:. The available brands of these tubes are highly variable musically and microphonically. The Electro Harmonix is very good, too.
Same comment as 6SN7 type. Output Tubes:. Am told the NOS Mullard prices are strong, but worth it. Lots to choose from. Usually your manufacturer tuned the gear to a certain brand of these.
Be mindful of that before you spend tons of money on vintage NOS versions that end up not sounding as good. At least try KT88s! Same comment as EL34 type. I would!Are you looking for the very best tubes for your vacuum tube amplifier? This is the place to start. Check out the following tube reviews for guidance in getting the best possible tone out of your tube gear. View our complete selection of 12AX7 vacuum tubes.
Tube comparison table - reviews at a glance. The tubes used in this review were selected at random from thetubestore.
Billy Penn's 300Guitars
For each tube used in the test, two were taken since there was no pre-screening involved. The aim was to get a sample that would be practical to work with but allow for variations in the tubes or prevent picking the only dud in a lot. The test amplifiers used were very different. This allows the high power, high gain crowd and the more conservative players to get the fairest evaluation possible.
Some tubes were clearly better suited in one application or usable in both. All tubes were used at the input amplifier stage of the amp since this seems to be where most people develop their perceptions of how good a pre-amp tube is.
The musical detail or ability to reproduce the sound of the instrument is a key factor in assessing a tube for guitar amplifiers. There is no perfect tube available. Each one has strengths, weaknesses and certain factors that contribute to its overall ratings. Usually a compromise is arrived at in the search for premium tone. All tubes will exhibit some degree of microphonics. Microphonics do not mean that a tube is unusable. You just have to screen them a little closer and determine where they are best suited for use.
Input pre-amps are the most sensitive areas of the amplifier. When used in this application most tubes will generate some noise if you tap on them with a pencil during operation. Keep in mind that doing so can actually damage the tube and make it more microphonic or cause it to fail if you hit it real hard.
Although they are screened prior to shipment a tube is an electromechanical device and can be damaged during shipment. A microphonic tube will ring, howl or produce general feedback problems.
It will be more noticeable at louder volumes or when used in close proximity to a speaker, typically in combo amps. If the tube has good tone at lower volumes and is free from unwanted noise, you use it in a less sensitive part of the circuit, such as tone recovery or phase inverter applications.
Noise is more of a problem than microphonics. A noisy tube will make random popping noises, crackle occasionally or just hum.
All tubes have a certain noise floor; this is the inherent background noise that the tube makes in operation. Typically, you will notice this as a soft hiss or "white noise". Tubes designed for high gain can exhibit more background noise. Other components can cause noise problems that may be blamed on a bad tube. Plate resistors are notorious for causing hiss and crackling as they age and begin to fail. A new tube may better amplify these defects, so try substituting another new tube to be sure of the source of the noise.
The Northern Electric 12AX7 is brand new and exclusive to thetubestore. This is not something that came along overnight. We have been developing and testing this product for almost 2 years to ensure that you will be buying a product that stands up against anything on the market, new or old.Read times.
Member Posts: What would be the effect sonically? I feel no, as the gain is different, other wise they are brothers tubes. Pez Industry Participant Posts: www. You can try and you won't blow anything up if that's what you are asking. But as fullrange had pointed out it might not sound good. It really depends on the circuit. The Dared preamps already have quite a bit of gain.Mullard vs JJ 12ax7 ecc83 - PRS 513 - Marshall JCM 800 Entretelones
Going with a 12AX7 may create a situation where you will have no usuable volume range and the sound would be "hard". If anything, I would go with a tube with slightly less gain. If you are happy with your volume range now, stay with the 12AT7. First thing to do before changing tubes in any product is check with the manufacturer or distributor to make sure it won't create any problems.
Yes, I'm happy with the volume range right now. What tubes provide less gain? Good question. A general comment. The 12AT7 family has approximately 3. Two questions emerge. More distortion. So no matter what the circuit, conditions won't be optimal.
Note that in a RIAA phono preamp circuit using a single dual triode, a 12AT7 tube will not have adequate open loop gain to follow the equalization feedback loop at lower frequencies.